Interview – Back from Japan (2/2)

During the first part of our interview, you spoke to us about your time in Japan.
Could you tell us about the place Karate holds in Japan?

You’re going to need to clarify your question a bit, as it’s quite a broad topic.

Of course. During your stays in Japan, did you meet many Japanese practitioners, and is Karate still popular there?

What I’m going to share is based on my limited experience, so I’ll speak only about the main island of Japan — I haven’t had the chance to visit Okinawa yet.

Karate remains popular in the collective imagination; it’s part of the country’s culture.
As Europeans, we often have a tendency to exaggerate — some people imagine that there are dojos on every corner, but that’s not exactly the case.
Likewise, major Japanese Karate brands like Shureido, ISAMI, Tokaido, or Tokyodo are not huge stores either.

As an anecdote: one of my students recently went to Tokyo and wanted to buy an ISAMI dogi.
He imagined a massive Decathlon-style store but had a hard time finding it, only to realize it was a small shop on the fifth floor of a building.

As for the number of practitioners, I don’t have precise figures.
But from what I’ve gathered speaking with dojo leaders, children are still actively practicing.
Among adults, however, there seem to be fewer practitioners.

This summer, with the surge in tourism that Japan has seen over the last two years, it wasn’t uncommon to visit dojos where there were more foreign practitioners than locals.

Going back to the topic of children — some parents even enroll their kids in Karate dojos where classes are taught in English, so they can learn the language more quickly.
I saw two or three of those in the Tokyo neighborhood where I was staying. I found the concept quite interesting.

So, time for you to open a Uechi-Ryu dojo in Tokyo and teach in French?

’m not sure there’s a big market for that, and professionally, I’m still based in Toulouse for the time being.
French-language Uechi-Ryu classes in Japan (pauses)… could be fun!

The Japanese love France. In the big cities, you’ll find tons of shops with French names or “adapted” French expressions.
In Tokyo, for example, I found an urban bike manufacturer that names its models after towns in the Southwest of France — even one from near Toulouse!
Still, if I were to live in Japan, I’d probably choose another region — somewhere near Mount Fuji, or even up north in the mountains. It’s truly beautiful up there.

How were you received at the dojos you visited?

Very well. Most instructors were surprised to see a foreigner who could manage a bit of Japanese.
In Tokyo, I got the impression that — with the wave of tourism this summer — they’d become used to offering introductory classes.
So many were surprised to see someone arrive with a few years of experience.

That was the case at the Muribushikan dojo in Koenji, which I mentioned on our educational platform Oryukan.

Is that the one where we see you doing Sanseiryu on social media?

Yes, that’s the one. My arrival there was pretty amusing.
Even though I had written ahead to introduce myself, I think the message got lost between the regional managers and the dojo instructor.
The teacher expected to give a beginner’s class. I explained my level and the kata I was working on.
His reaction was: “Oh really? We’ll have to change the class then!”
Then, when I put on my dogi and belt, he exclaimed: “But you’re one of us!”
We were wearing the same uniforms — we’re both part of the same organization: the Uechi-Ryu Karate-Do Kyokai (上地流空手道協会) under Soke Sadanao Uechi.

How did the session go?

Some students asked if I could lead the session alongside the local teacher.
I simply replied that the highest-ranking person was the Kancho, and if he asked me to share any differences in techniques, I’d be happy to do so.

We got to work straight away, and the Kancho asked me each time I noticed a variation to show it to the group.
So we exchanged a lot…

Are there really that many differences?

No, Uechi-Ryu Karate is still Uechi-Ryu Karate. The katas and techniques are the same.
There are small variations that have evolved over time. Even in a traditional art, every instructor grows and adds their own findings to their teaching.
It’s a personal path that evolves with practice.

To illustrate this, I could talk about my first encounters with George Mattson.
When I first met him, I honestly didn’t know who he was, apart from being a Uechi-Ryu instructor.

It was my French teacher, Jean Smith, who said: “Lionel, do you know who George Mattson is?”
So I did some research… and was stunned.

When I saw George again, I knew who he was and was really impressed.
I told him I had found and enjoyed his first book The Way of Karate.
His reply was clear:

“I was young when I wrote that book, and after decades of training, I now disagree with some of it — so please don’t take it too seriously. What I teach now is much closer to how Kanei Uechi taught.”

It may sound a bit harsh… but in the end, we’re all seekers, and we only find what we’re searching for.
And we don’t find the same things at age 20, 40, or 60 either.

What about technical aspects — are sessions in Japan different from those in Europe?

Regarding Uechi-Ryu, I haven’t seen major differences. We’re lucky to practice a traditional art with a fairly structured curriculum.

At Muribushikan, for example (since we’re both in the same organization), the class followed the format I would’ve used for students at a similar level.

It was a standard session — with more discussion than usual since we were covering technical points.
We did the full Hojo Undo, worked through all the katas… with a few mistakes on my part — we were near the end of the trip, and I was tired (summer in Japan is hot and humid, and we’d been moving around a lot).

We explored different kata applications and shared our respective interpretations.

We ended with Sanseiryu, and some students wanted to see the older version of the kata.
So I demonstrated it, adding the movement dynamics as taught at Muribushikan.

We then talked about the old method still taught by George Mattson.

That’s something we should probably revisit in a future interview, because that method isn’t widely known.

It’s quite a specific approach — closer to what Kanei Uechi did — involving a lot more fluidity and full-body engagement in the techniques.

What’s funny is that when I shared the Sanseiryu video I recorded in Tokyo, it sparked a lot of debate.
Some people thought I was too soft, others thought I was too stiff. So much depends on interpretation and experience.

Is sparring (kumite) practiced differently?

Again, I can’t generalize — but the use of face shields in sparring seems to have become very popular in Japan.
I knew it was common for kids, but now it’s the same for adults.
I didn’t ask whether that was due to COVID or a general evolution in practice.

Are you planning to go back to Japan next year?

The next few months are quite busy, with a training trip planned for Miami.
Florida was recently hit by Hurricane Milton, so I hope the facilities will be ready to welcome us by then.
In parallel, we’re also preparing for upcoming gatherings of the Uechi-Ryu Oryukai community, which is gaining great momentum.

Can you tell us a bit more about the Oryukai members?

Of course! We’re fortunate to have very committed students.
Most also join our weekly Zoom sessions with the U.S. every Tuesday evening — they’re improving their English too! (laughs)

Through the ORYUKAN online program, we have students from eastern France, Normandy, and the southwestern regions — all places without local dojos.

We’re organizing gatherings because it’s important for us to meet and train together.

When is the next gathering planned?

The date and location are still being discussed with the group members — but don’t worry, we’ll post the information on the website.

Thank you so much, Lionel, for your time and insights.